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Michael Woudenberg's avatar

I don't believe suffering = evil. Evil typically results in suffering but we need much of what we call suffering to keep the world balanced. Suffering is a feature. I also like the idea that evil isn't created by God but evil is the absence or rejection of God.

And to add one more layer on this, in Physics, everything resorts to entropy. It takes energy to create order. Suffering is also largely driven by entropy. We mitigate suffering by adding energy. So, without something providing energy to create order, entropy is the natural state.

This is why I, personally, ascribe to a modified simulation theory of existence. We are instantiated in a life to grow and mature, basically overcoming entropy towards greater order. Instead of a Heaven of infinite reward, we learn lessons and return to another instantiation. In this case, the suffering is still a feature and the goal is to learn how to reduce it by reducing entropy. (Frankly, I find the idea of Christian heaven dismally boring)

I've got an essay scheduld to come out in the next month titled "Reincarnation Sounds Awesome." which looks deeper into that topic as well but sufice to say, Entropy is the foundation of physics, suffering is a form of entropy, and I think we are here to help add energy to overcome entropy.

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Liv Hagye's avatar

Insightful and thoughtful take, though I have to disagree. The finitude of suffering does not diminish its value. It only diminishes its temporal significance, not its moral or spiritual significance. On the contrary, suffering is of immense value in the Christian faith. We innately feel the, as C.S. Lewis puts it, "unnaturalness" of human death and suffering. That's why it's everyone's greatest hurdle to faith. Christ specifically entered into our sufferings--he wept at our suffering. While the Glory to come will change how we view suffering, in some sense, suffering has to do with every piece of life outside of renewal.

That said, I think an important response to Alex O'Connor is the acknowledgment that most Christians get animal death wrong, viewing it as something post-fall, which brings up numerous claims on animal morality, animal souls, etc. In reality, and clear in Jewish and Catholic thought, animal death was always a part of the hierarchical created order. Lions have always been carnivorous, bees have always stung. There are many reasons for this, but the question for Alex becomes, "If animals have no souls, and no claim to immortality like humans, can they really be said to suffer?"

Very thought provoking article!

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